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Questions From Malaysia

April 15, 2006
Dear Prof Morris,

Greetings from Malaysia!

I recently stumble upon your marketing and storytelling site. Very interesting indeed, however, I need to ask you regarding the 7 areas of academic marketing - what are the areas meant and what are they?

Thank you for your attention.


Hello M
So happy you found my website.
The seven areas of academic marketing are to me Price, Product, Promotion, Place, Segmentation, Targeting, and Positioning. It is hard to find a marketing book that does not focus on these things.
I have added another called motivation.
If you look at the PowerPoint on my site you will see how I take these 8 areas and apply the same process. (CSD ADDIE). ADDIE was taken from US Military learning. Look on my links for ADDIE and ISD.
My own belief is that all areas in life can and are marketing.
I am now thinking that all 8 marketing areas are not the key. It is the story that is the critical component.
Happy to answer anything.

I also have Yahoo Messenger that you can contact me on and we can carry on a conversation.

dmorris432 Let me know when is a good time I live in Connecticut EST USA.
If you could help me with suggestions it would be great.
How did you find the site?

Were you looking for marketing and storytelling?
Do you have any suggestions for descriptors that would help people find the site.
How much time did you take on the site?
Is it something you would keep going back to?
Did you see that I have mp3 audios on the site?
Is there any thing you like better than others? 
D Morris 
I will put this correspondence on my site under Dialogue. I will take out your last name and e-mail address.

April 17, 2006 (I edited this e-mail DM)
HELLO Prof Morris!

I am delighted to receive your prompt response too!

Definitely Prof Morris, except that I still have a
question (few in fact!) - would the eight areas
relevant in 'academic marketing' or specifically
'strategic academic marketing'. Would you direct me
to further reading materials related to this 8 areas?
Where does the first part of vision, mission and
objectives comes into place in these 8 areas, or does
it included in the P as in Product? How would you
define 'academic marketing'?

Thank you for the pointers, thou I'm yet to browse
thru it.

I have to admit that this "story" things is still new
to me - would it be similar to the rich pictures
method in SSM, Prof?

Until then, 'selamat berkenalan'!


April 17, 2006
Happy you emailed me back. Your e-mail really helped me a great deal. Do you know Dr. Dick Plank? I will produce an audio to answer this and put it on my website.
Academic marketing is marketing taught in universities. This is far different than marketing practice. Academic marketing has very little impact on marketing practice.
The 8th is motivation. I use the ARCS Model developed for the US Army. John M. Keller is a former professor of mine. I reference the ARCS Model on my Links page. I also go into depth in the PowerPoint. Academic marketing tried to link marketing to consumer behavior. ARCS is the compilation of consumer behavior used by the military
Vision, mission, and objectives are so confusing that I avoid the concepts. I use another model.
(Cosmology, Story, Direction), the ADDIE on PowerPoint.
The reason is that I believe we are driven by our Cosmology. When the cosmology is different all the world is different. We create and modify stories to reinforce and live within our cosmology. Direction is what we want to accomplish within the cosmology and stories. ADDIE is a process to accomplish this. ADDIE Model developed for US military.
Try to figure it out and I will help you.
If one were Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim they would all function under a different cosmology. Their stories would lead them into different worlds. Science was an attempt to supersede the religious based cosmologies. But it turned out to reinforce, at least in the West, a Christian view.
Now science has become marketing. Science became a method for a few to gain power over the many. These few were different from the past in that they came from different cosmologies derived from different religions. They attempted to create a meta religion.
What I am suggesting is that the stories that drive our cosmology are the key to marketing. We do not participate in any actions that do not reinforce our story (cosmology). No product of service is able to enter unless it is reinforcing the cosmology.
Of course the story thing is new to you. Because no one has linked it for you. Once you see the links it is easy.
No never been to Malaysia but have had students from their.

April 17, 2006 Follow up e-mail.
Hello M 
I never heard of rich pictures. I just looked it up. It is very similar to my thinking. I will look at this much more carefully to see if I can learn from the concept.
The concept of rich pictures seems to be also taken from systems theory.
I can see some differences but I like their concept. My guess is that they are linear models of systems. This is a mistake made by systems theory people.
I will let you know. Thanks for showing me this concept.
When was the concept created??
David Morris

April 18, 2006
Hi again Prof,

Tis an honour to be able to share (not just show) knowledge and hopefully wisdom with you.. I never heard of rich pictures before too, until recently (starting early this year) when I embarked upon a quest to quench my thirst for something new (something outside my area, I mean, that can enrich my knowledge and wisdom) which is from management area to computer
science area.

Rich pictures reside within the domain of information systems in computer science. It originated in the soft systems methodology (SSM) (Checkland (1981), Checkland & Scholes (1990) and Patching (1990)). SSM in turn had its origin in sociotechnical approaches to system design (Mumford 1987). Within this tradition, identifying multiple viewpoints of a work situation is a recurrent problem. SSM was developed during the 1960s and 1970s by Peter Checkland and his students at Lancaster University. At the core of SSM is a desire to understand human activity systems in a way that is meaningful to the actors in that system. SSM consists of 7 main stages that proceed from articulating the problem situation, through building alternative systems models, to making recommendations for action.
Checkland proposes that the rich picture as a representation to be used at the beginning of this process. Rich pictures are generally constructed by interviewing people (refer to Monk & Howard (1998) for further info).

Yes it was similar with your story telling method and that's what arrested my attention in the first place.

I will continue with this in my next session. Until then, really a great pleasure to be able to interact with you.

By the way, may I ask a personal question? Are you Irish, or a descendent of Irish? I had an Irish good friend during my stint in UK back in the early nineties, Paul O'Morain from Ireland.

April 18, 2006
Hello M
I will look at rich pictures again using your references.

One of the hardest things for any of us to do is admit we do not know something and ask for help. It gets harder as we get older and more established.
I learned this because I had a radio show at the University for many years. I would have many people laugh in my face if I asked them to tell me about something off the radio many times. On the radio show or as a visitor to my classes they would happily share. I could actually control my learning. This is not done in society accept for the extremely rich or top political leaders. A few in business use this but very few. This is why they are so uninformed.
It is ego and we are afraid to reveal areas of a lack of knowledge. We generally reject sharing knowledge with others because this is also ego. If we share we may reveal a lack of our own knowledge.
I have hundreds of radio an TV interviews. I am going to put them on Google video and then reference them from my site.
If there is something you are interested in I will put on my site and you can listen and watch.
My Irish heritage was kept from me and never reinforced until I went to Trinity College Dublin to teach. If you read or listen to my book Arkaim Marketing Wars much is true. A lot is also made up. If you read or listen just ask what is true or not true in relation to my own experiences.
No I do not know the person you met from Ireland.
Again if you have feedback to help me on my website I would be grateful.
A very creative former student from Turkey of mine gave me feed back today. I will send to you. To be honest a lot of what he says is not clear and I do not understand exactly what he is saying. I asked him a few question to start.
How did you find my website?
I am sending this e-mail to my other email so I can have your address their to send you his email.

April 19, 2006
Dear Prof Morris,

Have you ever heard the saying "the more you know (or discover), the more you realize that there's more to know (and to discover)"? I am a Muslim (still trying to be a good one) and in Islam we have this quote, "the existing knowledge is like the water dripping from your finger when you dip it in the ocean, whereas the water in the ocean represent the vastness of ALLAH (Muslim's God) knowledge." You wouldn't mind me touching on religious aspect, won't you?, as I distinctly recall info from your materials stating something about the trilogy of powers, religious, political and military (please correct me if I made a mistake here). Personally I would say that religions should control the other 2 as all religions teaches their followers to do good deeds, I am yet to find any religions that teaches their followers to do evil or bad things. If the other 2 take control, then that's where we may see disastrous results.

Thus as a Muslim we are encouraged to delve more into knowledge, as long as it is within the limits stated in Quran and Sunnah. So, as the being created by The Almighty, understanding who we are, why are we here and where are we going to - we should be thankful that we are granted to 'share' everything HE created - the air, water, happiness, wealth (not just in materials, but emotional and spiritual), love etc. In Islam, we use the term Nafsu (need and want or desire? as in marketing) instead of ego. There are different levels of nafsu and there are different ways to deals with them. The conclusion is nafsu can be controlled, depend on one strength and determination.

One of the hardest things for any of us to do is admit we do not know something and ask for help. It gets harder as we get older and more established.

Please Prof Morris, when you said these, it confirmed my intuition (based on personal experiences dealing with professors) but I always told myself that I do not want to be like that, I want to strive for self-betterment - my philosophy in life is simply: today is better than yesterday and tomorrow is better than today. It can be translated as I'll be a better Muslim (to Allah), daughter (to my parents), friend and lover (to my husband), mother (to my children), friend-cum-listener (to colleagues) so on..

Would it so bad to be laughed at? I've done this many times - instead of being laugh at, I ensure that we will laugh together. I did this in my classes and my students seem to enjoy and appreciate it. (Oh BTW have I inform you that I am an academician too, just embarking upon the quest for a PhD qualification?.) Wouldn't laughter (and love) is the best medicine?

I might have my own story telling too in answering your enquiries as in my Malay Culture, I was brought up with many legends, myths, and stories. My mother used to read to me and relates many stories to spur me on. I used stories (cases?) in my classes to engaged student's attention. I think everyone has their own unique and different stories behind them.
I have to admit too that Turkish messages was a little bit difficult to comprehend. May be I could comprehend it better if I am a Turk too. I think, in order to better understand an artifact (in this case, the Turk script), we can look at it from many perspectives, including putting myself in his (I think this person is a male) shoes. I would start with why - why did he send you that message in the first place - to state a problem, to give solution or to offer recommendation. Otherwise, at the moment, I can't say anything much too - what's the US slang, 'beats me to'.

I was initially a little puzzled with the presentation of your portal as the page I first accessed was the page with the 7 area of academic marketing (as I was searching for info for my literature review), but your experiences, questions got me. I want to be differentiated from him as my reasons for browsing your portal was for information, things I could easily find and read, I was not looking for the aesthetic part.

April 19, 2006

Thanks for your email.
What page was the 7 things on? PowerPoint?
Some things I learned so far at my age.
As we continue to learn those around you may be left behind.
If they identify your understandings as different and threatening they will try to stop you.
No one wants to hear what your new insights are unless you link with a current leader in the field. This will probably require you to do 99% of the work.

Happy you are working at being a good Muslim.

I say that I am trying to be a good Christian. I think that I am. My understand of Christianity includes knowledge of many religions and philosophies.

Happy to think and talk about religion. My thought is that they are the most effective users of stories.

Religions all have a cosmology that describes the beginning and end of the world. They set up parameters of the way we should live our lives. So does science.
As with any human endeavor Religion and Science can be used by individuals and groups to do harm to themselves and others.

I would add to the 3 power groups the Military.

All my live I thought if the Christians could regain control over our society things would be far better. I have found this to not be true. Power has the tendency to co-op people. Many outcomes that are now attributed to a Christian philosophy I would think have not been
linked to Christianity. The last Pope seems to have been consistent in linking Christian philosophy to his thoughts and actions.

As a Christian it makes me sick to see Christians happy to kill and do harm to others.

I am not saying that that are people that are not worthy of punishment. But I think that as a Christian we could identify the loss and the value of the other. I am smart enough to know that there are others that will do us harm.

Change is not easy. It comes from a perception of reward or punishment. 99% of us are not rewarded through change.

I did not see my student's feedback as negative. I just could not figure it out.

What is a portal? Do you mean my PowerPoint page?
David Morris

Dear Prof Morris,

Thanks for sharing your incites (insights, you mean?) with a student like me. I have to admit that I do have doubts regarding your reception of my touching on religious aspect - especially with the on-going thing between the West and Islam, and all the propagandas against Islam lately. (That's one of the main reason I didn't go back to US for my PhD.) I am in tandem with the notion that it is not religion, but the individual person at fault. Individual that possess and manipulate power and politic. Yes Prof Morris, we should be smart enough to always be on alert to person (s) that would do us harm, which could be our own dearest friend or family member. In Malay we have this saying (translated to), be careful on the road - as when we're driving, all our senses are working and always on alert to avoid unwanted incidents. Those we're careful and always abide the law - irresponsible others may cause problems.

The 7 things were not in ppt, in your marketing and storytelling pages.

I used to remind myself "never to old to learn" as life is a continuum of learning process. Tis better now than never, wouldn't it.

As we continue to learn those around you may be left behind.

Q - yes, for the time being (like for me during my studies, I left my colleagues and students behind) but after we're done, we'll go back and share with them our discoveries, right?.

If they identify your understandings as different and threatening they will try to stop you.

True, but 'truth always hurt'?

No one wants to hear what your new insights are unless you link with a current leader in the field. This will probably require you to do 99% of the work.

Yes, that's why I have to do lots of literature review before I can be an expert.

Happy to think and talk about religion. My thought is that they are the most effective users of stories.

As Muslim, we're urged to read and exemplify our prophet (s) conducts, and reading the Quran. BTW Quran is actually consists of many stories, that's our main sources of stories.

I would add to the 3 power groups the Military.

Would that be religion, politic, military and science?

My insight is that it is all people are at the point where we do not want to change. Change is not easy. It comes from a perception of reward or punishment. 99% of us are not rewarded through change.

To me complacent is the word - for me 'I cannot change others but I can change (transform) myself. By changing/transforming myself then can I transform my surrounding and others around me'. I've heard that change should start from the mind (brain - rational?). In Islamic teaching 'there's 1 part that's important in determining the rest of the body's condition. The heart (emotion? feelings?) - if it's black, then the rest of the body will be black too and vice-versa'. What do you make of this?

I love Johnson & Johnson powerful message - 5 seconds of touching will send more love than 5 minutes of words. I believe many problems in this world can be solved by LOVE, and for me Islam is a religion of love, as other religions too.

Please send me some name of important stories from your culture.

Aha, thought you might ask - but sad to say many are in tacit form - passed down generation for generation by word-of-mouth. Difficult to find the artifact nowadays as the ones my mother used to read to me are in Arabic versions, and they're destroyed by age. And I believe most of them are a replication or combination of other folklores. Anyway some of the popular ones (related by my mother) are Hang Tuah the legend and Princess of Gunung Ledang, Batu Belah Batu Bertangkup, Si Tenggang, Syair Siti Zubaidah and many others. Will names them again later, it's been a long time since I'm relating them to my children, they're long past that age.

It is hard to be laughed at because many see this as an opening to attack.

Very true. That's one perspective.

Cases are stories but they teach nothing. I created a concept called Case Stories. They are on my webpage.

In just a few words, how different are they?

I did not see my student's feedback as negative. I just could not figure it out.

Maybe he wants to give suggestions, such as it 'would be better if your sites were like this.. have this..'- what was his motive for saying such?.. but it could be that he was typing so fast that some words are missing or misspelled. I would clarify it with him.

What is a portal? Do you mean my PowerPoint page? Basically I would say that a portal is a gateway to network-accessible resources. Your ppt page is also a portal.

Thanks for the help on the spelling of insights. I went back and made the changes on my web pages. Spelling has always been difficult for me. I had to get to the point in my life where when I make a mistake I just changed it. I am happy to learn when something is spelled wrong. It was hard for many years. Many people use pointing out of the misspelling of a word to disregard and degrade everything that is said. I keep trying.

Western marketing is so ego centric that they cannot understand marketing efforts. I will tell you a secret. Academic marketing never sold anything. It was created by the US military to pretend that our system was consumer and individually oriented. The real actions they took were that key industries were supported and were not allowed to fail. We just do not know anything that is going on around us. Our educations are so linear. I think I would have done the same after World War II. Russia was a real threat. Very real. DM

What are the types of marketing research and what processes are used?
Supposedly primary and secondary. Primary specific to particular company. Secondary is that same information that is given to others.
What is the most effective (time and money) way to do market research?
Do it yourself.